ceiling and the fiscal cliff usually we put it off but this is one i think that will cause tremendous damage and the -- >> $85 billion. >> with the congress gone for a week when do they have time to negotiate. >> $85 billion in a $3.5 trillion budget. >> and -- >> it will hurt the economy. >> if you lose your job i think it hurts you, don't you think. >> fundamentally, the debt we have at the moment is the bigger problem for the economy and job creation. the president -- >> chris: let me bring karl in here. one, to talk about the sequester and also, in a bigger sense, look at the president's state of the union speech and agenda he laid out and what does it tell us what he wants to do in his second term. >> spend a lot of money and pursue a lot of liberal social policies and also says he's out of touch with the reality of where the country is, the democrats spent the last week going around and saying we don't have a spending problem and on the fox poll 83% of the american people say we have a spending problem, i agree with kim, $85 billion cut is a 2.4% cut, roughly out of this year's